Read Deeply, Ask Largely

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Read Deeply, Ask Largely

Post by Noel George on Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:12 pm

Jesus said, "If you remain in Me and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you." John 15:7.

How do we interpret this verse and actually apply it in the light of the blatant misuses of it on all sides of Christianity?

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Re: Read Deeply, Ask Largely

Post by dalehill47 on Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:44 pm

Do not worry about the misuse/abuse of the verse, which is abundant. This could stop the saints from praying at all--for fear they would pray wrongly. Ask. Seek. Knock. That is what we are to do.
Flip Side:
If I don't get what I pray for, does that mean I am not in Him? His words are not in me?

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Re: Read Deeply, Ask Largely

Post by graciehill48 on Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:34 pm

Big IF at the start of that verse. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ... We should probably get in the habit of checking our motives, God is. Judging our own thoughts and intents, if we are afraid of asking amiss.

If we walk in the Spirit, led by the Spirit, we have his wisdom, we have the mind of Christ, etc. That verse is not a credit card, carte blanche.


Last edited by graciehill48 on Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : misspelled)

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Re: Read Deeply, Ask Largely

Post by weston on Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:27 pm

I interpret it as, if we remain in Christ, and have his words in us, we are going to be aligned with his will. Cause and effect. If we are aligned with his will, we can ask for anything, and it will be given to us... because God wants us to receive it.

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Re: Read Deeply, Ask Largely

Post by Jeannie Baker on Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:03 pm

Very thought provoking....I think we pray believing and continue to pray believing until something opposite manifests itself and then we align our thinking with God's perfect will for our lives. I believe whole heartedly with Romans 8 that ALL things do work together unto good for those who are called according to His purpose...I have a friend who from the first moment of being diagnosed with bone cancer prayed believing that God would heal her. Every visit with Lois, she assured me that God was going to heal her. Over the past year and a half her desire to live only increased as her health got worse. I was over there last thursday and now she is no longer able to speak as the brain tumors now press on the part of the brain that controls her speech. I took her hands and sang "Jesus loves me this I know" and was so moved to hear her utter Jesus with me. Her dear husband of 47 years and her children and many friends are now aligning themselves with God's perfect will for their lives.
I praise the Lord for the many, many miracles that happen daily in our lives and I praise the Lord for the many, many times we stand in faith and know that God is in control "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to His purpose." I praise the King of GLORY we serve!!!

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Re: Read Deeply, Ask Largely

Post by austin on Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:21 am

If we remain in Him, this is what we will ask - ....nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

God wants someone to put a big amen ( so shall it be ) at the end of His prayer - which is His Will.

God has shown me in my life that all the stuff "out-there" is only used to work on all the stuff "in-here" which is my inner man, when the heart changes so does the circumstances. So we need to seek the Kingdom first - which is within you, and then all these things ....

Do what ever it takes Father... dont listen to my why's and my complaining, and dont listen to my prayers to pull me out of whatever tribulation that You are using - but do as thou wilt. AMEN.

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Re: Read Deeply, Ask Largely

Post by Noel George on Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:12 pm

Jesus commands us to ask, seek and knock. For what are we to be asking? Seeking? and knocking?

Can we have confidence in knowing for what to ask?

Can we with confidence know that what we have asked for, we will receive?

If we are to ask largely and in His will, what kind of big things can we ask in His will?

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Re: Read Deeply, Ask Largely

Post by weston on Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:21 pm

I think the Bible indicates... anything. Razz

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Re: Read Deeply, Ask Largely

Post by Noel George on Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:28 pm

I agree with the above: "Anything."

But it seems that some people ask so vaguely because they are so uncertain as to what God's will is. So at the end of each prayer, we hear, "If it is your will... Amen." Can we pray with confidence knowing that our prayer WILL be answered EVERY time?

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Re: Read Deeply, Ask Largely

Post by weston on Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:34 pm

Yes.

If it is in His will. Smile

I believe we can know God's will. But how many of us are putting in the time and effort to seek God's will?

He says that "if His words remain in us" ... We need to meditatively read his Word. Not meditate in the eastern sense, where you empty your mind, but in the sense that we dwell on His scriptures. I think many of us have very one sided prayers. Do we ever pause and wait for God to speak to us while we are praying? Do we ever ask God to reveal his will to us, and then wait for the revelation? Or do we pray what we want, and ask God to try to make it his will? I know I am guilty of the latter more often than not.

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Re: Read Deeply, Ask Largely

Post by austin on Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:27 am

my thoughts on this ... by the way, this is more for me, than it is for whoever. God is Good. aint He.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.


none of us are putting in the time and effort to seek God's wiil, because the bible says there is none that seeketh after God, no not one.
it also says that God heareth not sinners, and that includes me for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

so if He doesnt hear sinners, than how can i pray to my Father? i mean paul said we should pray without ceasing. thanks alot paul. sometimes i think that God makes it so easy that He tricks us. really!

i mean, a real prayer within the will of God which means it is heard by God is : - its the Spirit of God in us "groaning" prayers that dont even have to be vocalized or dont even have to be made into a thought process. its spiritual. it starts in the spirit and goes directly back to the spirit, for all things come from God, go thru God, and go back into God. You pray to your Father thru the Holy Spirit in a "heavenly voice" that doesnt have to be translated down hear and all that really means is that you pray to Him in Spirit. The part of you that prays in this heavenly voice or spiritual voice is the part of you that the Father hears, and its the part of you that was born from above - its Christ in you. the problem is - we pray to the God of our imagination with our old man adam. Your old man's prayers cant reach God because your old man cant reach Him, he is of the earth and God is eternal ( above time ) neither does he earn points with the many hours on his knees trying to reach Him, although our old man will make us think that this is earning favor - all the time keeping Christ from praying in us and thru us. our old man will be thinking of - or picturing - God in ... ( a place far, far away ), and he will be crying "where are you, where are you in this situation?" and " why are you bringing harm on me?" when the whole time God was "closer than a brother." and the whole time He only had plans to Bless you.

that prayer of adam is way different than the prayer of Christ in you.

The spirit of Christ prays thru us. Christ knows the perfect will of God and what to pray for. lets think about that - Christ is perfect, in everyway. and really the only prayer that Christ prays is the ... thy will be done prayer. its a prayer that is really just telling God YES!
it says - " God, you want to bring that into my life, than i say YES, God you want me to do that, than i say YES, God you are taking that away from me, i dont understand but i say YES, God that hurts alot, but i say YES."

this part of you that prays this isnt from a sinner saved by grace - but it is a new creation made by grace. this is life eternal, this is knowing the one true God. this is His Word staying in us.

you dont really have to worry about... well about anything, because He hasnt given us a spirit of fear, and if your praying out from a response of worry or out from a respose of fear than... but Dont worry about this either, the whole time you are screaming "WHY!" and there are storms of emotion in you Christ is praying a prayer of peace in you. only He can calm the storm.

Peace be still -
Christ himself is our peace. Ephesians 2:14

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Re: Read Deeply, Ask Largely

Post by weston on Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:33 pm

The verse most people refer to when talking about God not hearing sinners is Psalm 66:18

If I had cherished sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened;


If you read on, the next part says:

but God has surely listened and heard my voice in prayer. Praise be to God, who has not rejected my prayer or withheld his love from me!


I always took the groaning to mean when we couldn't find words to express ourselves to God.

In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.


Christ even gave us an example of how to pray, in the Lord's prayer.

I believe that our ability to pray, and enter God's presence, is a great honor, not to be taken lightly.

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Re: Read Deeply, Ask Largely

Post by austin on Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:15 am

weston, when i said that noel was the most attractive, you know that i meant only after you. right.

the verse you gave said it all - " the Spirit helps us in our weakness, We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express." -

the word intercession means - to pray on our behalf. So - if i do something on your behalf, it doesnt mean i do it "with you" or it doesnt mean that - you do it and since you dont really know how to, i help and teach you. it doesnt mean those two things at all, but it does mean - i am doing it for you as if i am you. in your stead. on your behalf. thats what God does - He sends His Holy Spirit to pray as you, He calls things that are not as though they were. He uses His Spirit in you to pray, and then says that its you. He has FAITH.
He is FAITH.

He sees the end from the start and knows that you will be completely filled with the Holy Spirit and will be made into the same image as Christ. This is your eternal life that dwells in God.

and also - Since He has faith and dwells above time and lives in the eternal, He sees the part of you completely filled with the Spirit and He sees him right now, because your seated next to Him right now, He is "calling those things which be not as though they were" because they really ARE to Him. He says that you ARE that person right now. and He listens to that person. are we praying from that person which is Christ? good question. always - the Spirit of God dwells in you.

John 9:31 "Now we know that God heareth not sinners:" -- which is followed by "but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him He heareth. "

thats the verse i meant when i said that God doesnt hear the prayer of sinners. but there is a second half to that verse - notice he does say that " a worshipper of God will be heard."
but again i think that He makes it so easy - that it tricks this natural mind. We still think that somehow in some little way, its about us. if we just really, really, really try really, really, really hard to worship Him, He will hear us because of what WE did, but its not like that - never has been. remember that He put abraham to sleep.

a true worshipper of God will give up all that is his - not by ( your ) might nor by ( your ) power, but by my Spirit, saith the Lord. - but thru the Holy Spirit the true worshipper will give up all that "is his" and all that "he is" and give it to God, including His own prayer, after this happens his prayer will say " in my heart i put it in Your hands, Your will be done ," because thats what worship is - and a true worshipper cant help but worship - which means to say he gives of himself - because that is his nature. Jesus gave completely in worshipping the Father and the Father " heard Him always. "

this is the prayer we pray in spirit - the only prayer that God "heareth" is the prayer born out of a heart of worship, out of a heart of giving Him your wants and replacing it with His. the prayer from YOU that is seated in the heavenlies by Him right now. This is the work of the Holy Spirit, making your heart His heart. making it empty, and filling it with Himself.
Really the biggest prayer that Christ prays thru us is - " YES, YES, YES - Father, conform us to you - make us a suitable habitation for Yourself and come fill your temple"
this prayer will be answered - because it is His will. WOW - talk about faith.

if your praying from Christ - then you know that it is heard because all He has to do is reach over, tap God on the shoulder and whisper the prayer into Gods ear.
thats why it is Christ that prays the prayer heard by God.
He is seated to the right of the Father....
but there is only one throne.

I believe that our ability to pray, and enter God's presence, is a great honor, not to be taken lightly.


true - but another thing worth mentioning is that at the same time we are on Holy ground right now, in His presence right now, we are already there - there is no enter. "enter" is a action. there is no action, you are either there or your not. but we are there because....
Christ entered - was - is - our " intercession " He did it " in our behalf " its already happened in eternity, where we are - but what about this watch on my wrist?
we are there always - maybe we just need to renew or make new again, our mind.
because i am still alittle sleepy and still have sand in my eyes from sleeping so long.

Wherefore he saith, AWAKE thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. Ephesians 5:14
nothing wakes me in the morning like the " SON " coming into my room.

Lord Jesus.
i am in your presence now because you are in me, but how happy i will be when i am aware of it fully(see you as you are.)

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