Nephilim

Gen 6:1 When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them,
Gen 6:2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.
Gen 6:3 Then the Lord said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years."
Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

Num 13:30 Then Caleb silenced the people before Moses and said, "We should go up and take possession of the land, for we can certainly do it."
Num 13:31 But the men who had gone up with him said, "We can't attack those people; they are stronger than we are."
Num 13:32 And they spread among the Israelites a bad report about the land they had explored. They said, "The land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size.
Num 13:33 We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."

Is this saying the Nephilim were the product of angels and women? Were they on the earth before and after the flood? They appear in Genesis 6 before the flood and in Numbers 13 well after as descendants of Anak.

Wikipedia has a pretty good article on them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim

from the article:

The fallen angels interpretation

The New American Bible commentary draws a parallel to the Epistle of Jude and the statements set forth in Genesis, suggesting that the Epistle refers implicitly to the paternity of Nephilim as heavenly beings who came to earth and had sexual intercourse with women. The footnotes of the Jerusalem Bible suggest that the Biblical author intended the Nephilim to be an "anecdote of a superhuman race". Genesis 6:4 implies that the Nephilim have inhabited the earth in at least two different time periods—in antediluvian times "and afterward." If the Nephilim were supernatural beings themselves, or at least the progeny of supernatural beings, it is possible that the "giants of Canaan" in Book of Numbers 13:33 were the direct descendants of the antediluvian Nephilim, or were fathered by the same supernatural parents.

Some Christian commentators have argued against this view, citing Jesus' statement that angels do not marry. Others believe that Jesus was only referring to angels in heaven

This is just one of the interpretations offered.

copied from a website -

The word "giants" means the following, from Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible #5303:

nephiyl (nefeel'); or nephil (nefeel'); from 5307; which means properly a feller, i.e. a bully or tyrant.

So it really doesn't mean a giant like the one in Jack and the Beanstalk but rather a bully or tyrant, of large stature. We have plenty of those around today. If we look in Bible dictionaries like Nelson's we will see something like the following:

NEPHILIM, a word of uncertain meaning (Genesis 6:4; Numbers 13:33), (NIV, NEB, NASB, RSV translations), translated as giants by the KJV and NKJV. Some scholars believe the Nephilim were descended from famous rulers, outstanding leaders, and mighty warriors who lived before the Flood. These men, so the theory goes, gathered great harems and were guilty of the sin of polygamy. The Nephilim were the product of these marriages. (from Nelson's Bible Dictionary, (c) 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

austin wrote:

nephiyl (nefeel'); or nephil (nefeel'); from 5307; which means properly a feller, i.e. a bully or tyrant.

Austin, you sure are a handsome feller. Or is that out of context?

no - that statement is pretty much always in context...

p.s. right back atcha!

The phrase " sons of God" appears a few times in the Bible. In Genesis it's left as sons of God in most versions and in Job is some versions translate it to angels. In Job it is certainly referring to angels. Job1:6 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them." Now the same Hebrew words are used in each case " ben 'elohiym" and although the author of Job is uncertain it is widely accepted that Moses wrote it. In which case would lead one to believe that the likelihood that the phrase has the same meaning in both contexts is strong. Furthermore the idea that nephilim just meant tyrant would seem at odds in the passage of Genesis as it goes on to say that they were the heroes of old (gibbowr "mighty men"), men of renown("fame" or "glory"). According to strong's 5303 "nĕphiyl" has an unknown etymology and only when compared to another text did they derive the meaning "excellent, noble, skillful' and 5307 "naphal" is "to fall" which is in it's context, Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof" or Gen 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell." ,is just what it says "to fall".

I am just wondering how spiritual " fallen " angels can have intercourse with man?
Is there male and female angels? Do they actually have sperm and or eggs?
Can they have children with other angels - little baby angels?
what if a fallen angel has intercourse with an angel that is not fallen?

there is a cult that thinks that Jesus is a brother to a certain other angel.

Last comment - why does it have to refer to angels in Job - why cant it mean what it says?
I certainly hope that angels are not really the sons of God - because I am a jealous son.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Very good points from both Austin and Clint.

It seems that when angels are personified in the Bible, they are usually referred to in the masculine sense. The angels that are named have male names... Gabriel, Michael, Lucifer... etc.

According to the Kevin Smith film, Dogma, Angels do not have reproductive organs, but I am not sure how much research he did on the topic.

I had always taken the reference to the 'sons of God' in Job to be referencing angels... I hadn't really considered any other possibility... Though I do agree with Austin, that they are not literal sons of God.

Also... this link has some interesting info in it: http://bible.org/seriespage/sons-god-and-daughters-men-genesis-61-8

I'm not actually a proponent of what I wrote above. I just wanted to keep the debate open. I often like to argue on an opposing side it helps me dig a little deeper into a subject, This is one I find interesting and learned a few things by researching. I don’t believe that angels reproduce or ever have. I do believe in giants though for instance Goliath so I leave that possibility open for the Nephilim.

I don’t know why they translate it to angels in Job. You'll have to ask the people that translated the NIV and the NLT. I just used the connotation for my argument.
Who do you think those particular "sons of God" were if not angels?

and yes Weston, Kevin Smith is always right.

if you have not considered a " pre " existence in God than consider it... in this manner.

The life of Christ in you has no end, but also - since it is Gods life - it had no beginning.

If Christ is you true identity - then that means that the life of Christ which is now your very own neither had a starting point or will have an ending point.

Ga 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me

This is the eternal life God has given.
He has placed His life as us and it is now US.

anyway

what i am trying to say and what is very logical to me is that the sons of God present at the start of Job - " might " be You ( Christ in you )

jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee...

do you remember? duh.

One of these days Austin... Pow, right to the moon.

I think people read some of these passages with a different degree of literalness. I am not sure that 'literalness' is a word, but I am not getting a red wavy line, so I am going to run with it.

The 'Before I formed the' could be referring to the fact that God exists outside of time, so he can see our lives before we are even born... or maybe that he knew our will and our hearts even before we were born?

or it could mean - before He formed us in the belly He knew us.
I am not talking about you weston - but Christ in you. surely you cant deny that.

I think you may have lost me. Are you saying that because Christ is in me, and that Christ has always existed, I have always existed in Christ? I am not sure I can agree with that. I think I had a starting point. The spirit of Christ is eternal, but I don't think I was in heaven with God before I was born.

CRI has this handy grid going over the Nephilim:
http://www.equip.org/articles/identity-of-the-sons-of-god-genesis-6-12

It is fun to try to figure all of the more nebulous passages of the Bible and put them into nice little packages. I just don't know if it can be done completely.

I tend to follow the advice of a very well known theologian and respected biblical scholar who said:
"It ain't those parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand."
-Mark Twain

(I loved him so much that I went to an elementary school in Carthage, MO named after him).

yo yo - check it... 1234


Am i the I am - Christ - the one that every knee will bow towards? NO
but i find the next verses interesting

Gal 3:16 - Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:29 - And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

ok - Gal 3:16 tells me that Abraham's seed is Christ, and then 3:29 tells me that I am Abraham's seed.

so i have to say in some way - we were there with God before... In Christ.
which is why i can read the 1st of Job and not change what it says to mean angels.
angels in hebrew has its own word ( mal’ak ) - sons also has its own word ( ben )

here are some verses that would be crazy if will changed sons to angels...

Ge 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son ( angel )
Ge 30:17 And God hearkened unto Leah, and she conceived, and bare Jacob the fifth son ( angel )
Ps 72:20 The prayers of David the son ( angel ) of Jesse are ended.
Ps 103:7 He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children ( angels ) of Israel.

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side note - isnt it strange that if someone came to your house and said they were Christ... it wouldnt take very long after looking them over for we would say " no your not - You might think you are but we dont."

but stated a little bit different like if we heard of someone being " anointed " ( which is what Christ means ) of God we might travel all over the world to see this anointed man.

I said " a tick tock and ya dont stop - a tick tock and ya dont quit. "