Infiltration

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Infiltration

Post by Noel George on Thu May 07, 2009 6:57 pm

In the “Great Sin” chapter of Mere Christianity C.S. Lewis outlines that pride is the most deadly of sins, because “as long as you are looking down, you cannot see something that is above you” (124).
How does Pride infiltrate into the social system of human relationships?

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Re: Infiltration

Post by weston on Tue May 12, 2009 12:20 am

It seems like we are brought up saying 'look what I have', or 'look what I can do'. I think pride starts at a very young age for most people.

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Re: Infiltration

Post by Noel George on Tue May 12, 2009 1:34 pm

What is the difference between sinful pride and healthy self-esteem?

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Re: Infiltration

Post by austin on Wed May 13, 2009 5:14 am

Healthy " SELF " - esteem? That is like " military intelligence " - isn't it?

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Re: Infiltration

Post by Noel George on Wed May 13, 2009 1:02 pm

Or self esteem could mean "love your neighbor as you love yourself."

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Re: Infiltration

Post by generallea on Wed May 13, 2009 5:46 pm

It can be where you get your self-esteem. If you get it from what God says about you it is a good thing, and renewable. You can stand on it and rely on it. If it comes from only yourself...it can let you down and lead you down wrong paths. It also wears you out trying to keep your self-esteem if it is manufactured from yourself.

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Re: Infiltration

Post by austin on Wed May 13, 2009 6:16 pm

she is correcto.

1.) God's " projection " of me - 2.) and my " perception " of me - are 2 different things.

1.) He projects the very image of Christ into me. Talk about light coming into darkness.

2.) And all i can see of myself most of the time ( without God's help ) is how I perceive myself ( the thought of myself )
and this thought comes from many years of social programming and brainwashing...

It comes from the world.

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Re: Infiltration

Post by Noel George on Wed May 13, 2009 6:20 pm

Paul said, "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but it is Christ living in me. The life I live in the body I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me" Galatians 2:20.

I believe that "nothing good lies within me," but O the riches of Christ Jesus once I am born again! I must love my neighbor as I love myself.

We are not into "self-loathing" here!

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Re: Infiltration

Post by generallea on Wed May 13, 2009 11:41 pm

This is an opinion to the original question:

Pride was the very "sin" that got Satan in hot water (pun intended). "Pride willfully opposes God." (See Isaiah 14) Our society preaches through all types of media that you can only rely on yourself and you are better thought of when you are a self-made man. It also pushes that your "rights" are God-given and that you should protect them at all cost.

Jesus had every angel within whisper distance to "save" him from the cruelty of a crucifixion. It was a "right" he had as God's son. But he exchanged that right in order to fulfill the bigger picture: reconciliation between us and God.

It is my opinion we usually are not willing to lay down our rights in order for God to work not only in our lives, but others as well. We have missed the point. The more you watch T.V. and listen to main-stream media the more you think about such things. The more you are reading the word of God and discussing it with other believers the more you think about such things. We are called out of the world. We are to live in it, but we are not to be of it. That means our thoughts and actions HAVE to be different than what we see from our culture and society.

There have been many situations that I have been in with friends that illustrate this point. I feel that a friend may be making a wrong choice, I feel I need to help my friend see the error of her ways. What I used to do is hammer the point home until I drove that person away or usually into tears. This demonstrated that I was more concerned that I was "right" (pride). Now, I give my opinion, but love that person enough to say I will give my opinion, but what you do with it is your choice. I will be here to help in any way I can. This demonstrates giving up my "right" to be correct. More often than not, I don't know the whole situation or don't know what God is doing in that persons life. When I set myself up as God in a persons life I am in pride.

If we (including myself) could learn to hear the voice of God and speak that into a persons life, then get out of the way for God...our relationships would be more healthy and fruitful.

Anyway, that's my opinion.

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Re: Infiltration

Post by austin on Thu May 14, 2009 4:35 am

Yes - in the eternal, He has finished the work, and we can certainly take pride in what HE has done.
but in the realm of time... we have borne the image of the earthy, and then later we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

right now - in a low sense we are flesh and blood, and flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God - certainly nothing to brag about here.

later - in a moment ( atomos ) , in the twinkling of an eye..

The Greek "en atomo," literally IN THE ATOMS, it is a change that is wrought in the very atomical structure of our being-- the very atoms will be altered, (made other). That which is of the earth, earthy, will be completely changed in its atoms, and take on a totally new expression, and that is why "we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself." [Philippians 3-21].

When we were by nature "the children of wrath," [Ephesians 2] there was no way we could manifest the image of the heavenly. It is the receiving of CHRIST to dwell within us, to become our new nature. HIS is the life which produces the change.
"In Whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession." [Ephesians 1-14]. We have a measure within, a divine portion, and it is working in us of that change, but it is needful that this "Christ within" receive much more from the "Christ without" to complete the change. Therefore, we are admonished to "gird up the loins of our mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto us at the revelation of Jesus Christ." [ 1 Peter 1:13 ]. There is a certain metamorphosis taking place now, but it will climax when HE comes to us, and imparts that added grace which will complete the change.

Until we receive Christ within, there can be no change, for HIS is the life which changes us-- if it is not within, it cannot be manifested outwardly. Reflections will not bring praise to God-- it is essential and imperative that it be a true expression of our inner state of being.


Only after the worm is changed into the Butterfly will the self loathing stop ( i mean come on, let me whine a little bit ) ... that is why we are looking for our change, and that means we are looking for HIM!

i like this poem

From glory to glory, as line upon line
He inworks His purpose thy life to refine.
A transfiguration, a process divine,
The wonder, the marvel of His rare design.
Where once it was earthy, the image of man,
The heavenly image is His final plan.
The butterfly out of the worm to emerge,
His life and His mercy in thee to converge.
Process of becoming, the cycles must turn,
Discipline's working, our lessons to learn.
The heat and the cold and the dark of the night,
Develop within us a spirit contrite.
The path of repentance - a changing of mind,
Until to His will we are fully aligned.
From glory to glory, inwrought by degrees,
Unshackled, praise God, from corruption He frees.
Forgetting the old, reaching out for the new,
The Spirit is leading in paths sure and true.
The changes, though painful, betoken His love,
With Christ-like expressions sent down from above.
We oft' stand in awe while beholding His ways,
Assured, grace sufficient for all of these days.
And when He has finished the process begun,
Conformed to His image, and one in the Son.

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Re: Infiltration

Post by Noel George on Thu May 14, 2009 1:06 pm

We were "changed" 2,000 years ago, we are being "changed" and we will be "changed when Christ comes back."

Go figure! Paul seemed to weave in and out of all three of these ideas as he wrote his epistles. That sometimes makes it a bit tricky to interpret what he is saying.

We are here in the body, but at the same exact time, we are seated in the heavenlies with Christ!

Isn't God awesome?

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Re: Infiltration

Post by J-walk on Thu May 14, 2009 4:48 pm

(Happy to see Weston brought the two most important statements to the discussion! JUST KIDDING!!!)

Is there a person alive without pride in their lives? And, yes, this element surely enters into relationships.

Spiritually, can we reflect HOLY pride at being: made in HIS image; being HIS sons and daughters; being assured of the Holy Spirit dwelling within us; knowing without a doubt that Christ's blood was shed for us and we will someday realize the glory of eternal life.

Just based on those thoughts -- I am a very proud person! Razz

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